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Watford 0 Barnsley 3 (09/04/2008) 10/04/2008

Posted by Matt Rowson in Match reports.
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Five thunks from last night’s monstrosity

1- This week I’ve seen a house purchase fall through, spent any amount of time with a bored toddler in queues on the M1, and my tickly cough is back.   I really didn’t need last night’s gutless, passionless, utterly undistracting shower of shit.

2- It’s difficult to single out the most damning indictment of the performance.  Was it that substitute Tamas Priskin, of all people, appeared aggressive and purposeful in contrast to what came before?  Or maybe that Lloyd Doyley was our biggest attacking threat?  Or even that a Barnsley team in desperate need of points away from home against a promotion-chasing side (ha) never once saw the need to slow the game down, take time over free kicks, or resort to any of the other tactics that have characterised several of our away victories?

3- As ever in times of stress, it seems safest to blame ig.  Fuelled by a naivety borne of not having seen a game since the (in relative terms) spellbinding performance against Stoke, the prospect of not winning comfortably hadn’t even crossed my mind until ig reminded me of this debacle  two days after Chesterfield’s FA Cup Semi final replay defeat in 1997.

4- The starkest contrast between this side and that of two years ago is the lack of leadership on the pitch.  Gone, for a variety of reasons, are Mahon, King, Carlisle, Mackay.  Without Eustace, the best we have are honest troopers like Shittu and the eternally forgivable Doyley.  Even the grotesquely in need of a break O’Toole earns a modicum of respect for not hiding.  But nobody on the pitch seemed able to encourage, direct or even influence the course of events.

5- Over Boothroyd’s tenure we’ve seen a fair bit of eye-catching decoration by the manager, from forthright interviews to now-familiar mantras and sound bites to exhortations with a microphone to personal drum-beating appearances in stands before games.  Some of it effective, some of it not, all of it no doubt well intentioned.  Now we really need to see some substance… on the face of last night’s performance, the floundering suggested by recalls to previously discarded players, the lack of flexibility of the side, this is undoubtedly his greatest challenge to date.  From such a summit earlier in the season, to get us to a stage now of qualifying for the play-offs, and going into them with anything other than resignation, would be a huge achievement.

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Comments»

1. Esp - 10/04/2008

This is my 100 word match report with all expletives deleted:
“Aidy………lacking passion……no leadership on the pitch……..substitutes……motivation……Blackpool……..must be …..joking.” Thank you

2. Harefield Hornet - 10/04/2008

I am totally confused by anything remotely connected to Watford FC at the moment and have been for some time. In 30 years of following the Hornets I have never witnessed such an utterly inept team and manager consistantly occupy such a high position in the league. Whether that is just a reflection of the other teams around us remains to be confirmed but surely last night a good many chickens came home to roost. Most of them being of the headless variety. The extremely worrying aspect is the power held by the cartel of Simpson/ Ashton/ Boothroyd making the latter seemingly fireproof. I looked up and down Vicarage Road last night for a Barnsley fan to shake the hand of after last nights debacle but, bless them, the 300 or so that made the long trip south following the disappointment of the weekend were still in the ground celebrating. The way they play football and their cup heroics against the “big-boys” this season makes me envious. Surely there is something very wrong going on at Vicarage Road.

3. Jim N - 10/04/2008

Because of my young family this was only my 4th match of the season at the Vic. I think I have seen more of our matches on TV.
The club used to be the most important thing in my life for more than 30 years, but it has moved down the pecking order with each addition to the family.

So last night was a rare visit to look forward to, with the team in touching distance of the top of the league. However I could not believe what I encountered when entering the stadium; the atmosphere was one of a morgue, with no apparent confidence or encouragement for the team.

I guess I should have been warned – a friend who does still have a season ticket told me only last week that he would not renew because of the style and quality of the “football” this season “hoping that a long throw from Bromby will bobble off a couple of defenders and then the post is our best hope”.

But has it really been that bad?

Heaven only knows what the Spanish gentlemen in the queue to collect tickets made of this. How can a team that is 5th have frustrated their fans so much?

So my questions to those who are regulars are:
When you chant at the end “what the f****** hell was that are you enquiring about the teams performance or the crowds performance?

As Matt says in point 4 this team does not have the players he mentioned, neither does it have young or Bouazza. Aidy has spent quite a bit of money since then as well. so is this team really so much less equipped than the team that last went up after 2 more years of guidance and investment?

Boothroyd out? Surely not, but I heard it said by enough people last night to wonder what has gone wrong with his relationship with the fans. Does the apparent spin surrounding everything with the club alienate the fans and increase the frustration?

4. AndyC - 10/04/2008

One-dimensional nonsense last night…For the love of god Odejayi couldn’t buy a goal then scores twice against us.

Utter rubbish

5. Nick B - 10/04/2008

Don’t usually leave early, but joined the spontaneous walkout after 3rd goal, feeling utterly shell shocked.
The night was summed up by the boot for touch at the restart from the second goal; how the crowd warmed to that.
I really hope we finish seventh, simply can’t face the play offs.
They were all poor, but I thought Hendo’s performance was particularly pitiful, summed up by his non defending of the second goal.

Maybe the best thing on Aidy’s CV will turn out to be keeping this shower in with a shout of promotion for so long…

6. Jimbo - 10/04/2008

A prediction at this juncture, if i may.
Wolves v Watford in the play-off final, with Wolves winning.
Sickening isn’t it?

7. Streve - 10/04/2008

Christ, where to start? Do I even want to start? Has a promotion campaign ever felt this bleak? Matt, you’ve summed it up pretty much. Some other gloomy thoughts to add from surveying the wreckage.

Yes we need leadership, motivation, energy. And we badly miss Eustace to help provide this. But we also lack guile, invention, craft – just the merest spark of anything the beyond the crushing predictable could have helped us find a way through one of the league’s worst defences last night. And the two aren’t unrelated – our seeming total inability to create any half decent chances outside of set-pieces is surely the reason behind the inevitable progression from frustration, to confusion, to total resignation among the players (I would say ‘team’ if it wasn’t so misleading) that’s become all too depressingly familiar during home matches these days.

And whatever the issues over team selection, form of current players etc (and my god does JJOT need a break), no-one could look good the way we’re playing at the moment. I’m no aesthete, and I’ve found the criticism of our style (and corresponding fawning of WBA’s supposed total football) pretty hard to take on many occasions this season. But what we’re serving up at the moment is indefensible – hideous, aimless, directionless drivel. It’s barely even football. And most importantly, it isn’t working. At all. Our best moments seem to occur totally at random, when players such as Smith (who’s absence was painfully felt last night), Ellington or Williamson make brave if futile attempts to get the ball down and pass with purpose. But for the most part it’s just an ugly morass of skewed clearances and hopeful punts to a long-suffering forward line expected to make magic out of manure. How deep did Ellington & Hendo have to drop to get any kind of service yesterday? Dreadful.

Biggest worry? Boothroyd’s ability to recognise that our approach is fundamentally flawed and needs adjusting; he’s always struck me as a pragmatic manager prepared to make tactical changes and take risks when needed. But if anything is to be salvaged from this season, we need new ideas desperately. And those can only come from an acceptance of where we’re going wrong. Worrying times . . .

8. Jim N - 10/04/2008

After last night’s match one of the managers said “We’ve gone a long way towards staying in this division.”

guess which one.

9. Wrighty - 10/04/2008

There was a report on a Forest match up here recently which could well be us being described
‘Forest continued their eternal fight against promotion yesterday’

10. Johnny Boy ( formly JohnM, but there are too many of us) - 10/04/2008

Yes it was depressing etc…lack of leadership etc…..and you can point the finger at the manager etc…….. BUT

– We are still only 2 points off the top of the division.
– Barnsley needed three points more than we did because it would be a shame if they were relegated after their cup heroics.
– And, for those saying Aidy should go, lets no forget where he has taken us over the last few years, a bloody miracle really. Also, who would you get to replace him?

That said, the team do need sorting out on the field – hope that Eustace has got broad shoulders.

Another depressing fact – Macca supplied two of the crosses for Swindons three goals last Saturday.

Finally, can ‘foghorn voice’ in the East Stand, you know the one who was having a ‘disscusion’ with that nice Mr Alex Chamberlain at the end of last nights game ( yes I did stay to the end) please ‘shut it’ as he is more likely to drive people away than the antics on the field.

11. scotshorn - 10/04/2008

I agree with Streve ?? – One of the loudest (ironic) cheers of the night came when we strung 4 passes across the back four early on – surely AB must realise that hoofball and hopeful high balls into the box is not what the fans or the players want – and that it does not win games now that the others have rumbled our predictable style. (Almost typed Styles there !!- thanks mate)

I can’t believe that we would have gone top with a win – there was no sign of players busting a gut to get there and it is scary to think what would happen to this team in the PL

We have become a joke as we tumble downwards towards 7th place. Does anyone really have any enthusiasm for the playoffs?

12. Matt Rowson - 10/04/2008

Johnny Boy – no it’s not depressing that McNamee supplied two crosses for Swindon. Whatever the answer is, McNamee was never it, as he capably demonstrated throughout his Watford career. Sheesh.

13. Esp - 10/04/2008

Jim stole my thunder as I too read the “staying in this division” quote from Davey it seemed too obvious to add to our pain by putting the line in Aidy’s mouth but Jim did it and so would I have.

Matt is absolutely spot on with his “lack of leadership” line; if Aidy can’t motivate from the dressing room (and it is evident he can’t currently) then we need at least 2 or 3 leaders on the pitch. There were none despite Tommy Smith’s call to arms i the opress beforehand.

“From such a summit earlier in the season, to get us to a stage now of qualifying for the play-offs, and going into them with anything other than resignation, would be a huge achievement.”

From Matt’s quote above one word leapt out:- personally I would be sad but not startled if Aidy’s low morale and his realisation that he cannot lift this squad led to his own “resignation”

14. rookerythoughts - 10/04/2008

Jim N – Count yourself lucky. Seriously. 4 home games sounds like heaven. With regards to questionning the fans performance, if you had been as often as many of us have, you will understand the lack of enthusiasm and subsequent lack of atmosphere.

Watford home games are now virtually all gruelling endurance tests, with only the most sick, twisted and massochistic able to stay the course.

Jimbo – your Watford V Wolves Play-Off Final prediction needs two highly unlikely occurances to take place if it is to come to fruition.

1) Watford will need to remain in the top 6.
2 Watford will thwen have to play, and beat another team in the top 6 over two legs.

Anyone unfortunate to be present at last night’s “performance” won’t be rushing to bet on either of those two outcomes.

Johnny Boy – your “We are only 2 points from the top” optimism is mildly refreshing and nice to see, however we could have gone top last night, and that was the best we could come up with. With the displays we have been turning in of late, we may as well be 102 points off the top.

The one remeaning straw that I am desperately clutching at is John Eustace. I’m sure he will make a difference. He HAS to make a difference!

Oh, and one last thing (and soor to Matt and Ig for gatecrashing, I promise it won’t happen again) but please check out my blog Rookerythoughts (http://rookerythoughts.wordpress.com) it would be good to get the thoughts of some of Watford’s most articulate fans.

15. Stuart - 10/04/2008

Supporting Watford isn’t alway fun.

16. Tim Turner - 10/04/2008

Just to add to the general air of doom and gloom, it says on the official site that Ellington and Henderson were both substituted because of injury (rather than for being rubbish, as we all thought at the time). So we face the prospect of taking on West Brom on Saturday with a ‘strike force’ of Priskin and Kabba. Or – god help us – one of the above plus Shittu.

I suspect I’ll be viewing on TV the way I used to watch ‘Doctor Who’ as a kid – with my hands over my face, occasionally peeking through my fingers to see if it’s safe to watch.

17. Simmo - 10/04/2008

My five negatives –
1. In over 30 years of supporting Watford I have never left the ground early. I have sat through a full 90 minutes of 1-5 thrashing by Crystal Palace and countless other games when the sensible view was to leave early. Last night we were so devoid of ideas, passion and commitment that I had to leave after 75 minutes. I do not like to “boo” the team so I felt my only response would be to leave in silence. If you don’t approve “vote with your feet”.
2. Barnsley didn’t have to play particularly well to beat us with ease
3. If we do not get promoted we will lose the better players like Danny and Jay. If that is the best we can do when we have a chance to go top, let’s hope next year wherever we are we do not play like that to avoid being relegated.
4. Would it be better that we didn’t get promoted. On that performance 11 points in any division would be very hard to achieve let alone the top division.
5. On 3 Counties after the match Aidy said during the interview that he felt that the Barnsley players took the field looking like a team who were already beaten. If that was the case why wasn’t Aidy able to motivate the players to take advantage of the situation.

My 5 positives
1. We are still only 2 points from top spot with 4 games left and with a game against WBA to come. We have come from the depths before.
2. We have not played well for the majority of the season (including away matches) but I don’t believe that we can play that badly again
3. JE will be back for the next game. It feels like a year since JE last played. We miss someone taking control in midfield.
4. Hopefully Tommy will be back as well. For all the endeavour MacAnuff shows he rarely delivers a final product whereas even a half fit Tommy produces some end result.
5. If we get promoted we will change the team and the tactics. Aidy is no fool. He, like us, knows things aren’t right. As he has said in the past he learns more from his losses than he does from his wins.

I realise that my positives are pretty weak but as a person who wants to get behind the team you have to cling on to something!

I know that all the above is pretty obvious but I had to just get it down in writing for my own sanity after last night.

18. East Stand Man - 10/04/2008

Jeez,

Let’s hope that Aidy does not resign or go. He has taken this club so far in the short term. Let’s just recap on that.

Saved us from relegation to Division 3 (or whatever the hell it is called these days)
Promotion to the Premiership
FA Cup Semi Final
Not disgraced in the Premiership (unlike Derby/Sunderland)
Two points from the top of the league with 4 games to go.

A couple of bad results should not deflect from that although I do agree that at present we look a pretty poor team lacking leadership and skill.

Here’s my starting eleven for WBA assuming no injuries:

Lee (Don’t trust Poom)

Mariappa (a bit of skill there)
Demerit (leadership and commitment)
Big Danny
Bromby (solid player)

Eustace (Boy do we miss him)
Williamson
Rinaldi (“If head is the right place” has the skill) C’mon Matt give him a break

Smith (gives 100%)
Henderson
Macanuff ( skillful)

Bench; Poom, Ellington, Bangura, John, Sadler

Well it looks OK on paper.

ps I am not the East Stand “Foghorn voice” man but I know who he is and I just wish he would bloody shut up. He never has any positive comments.

Come on you ‘orns

19. Mark - 10/04/2008

Could somebody tell the players and manager to bother turning up next time as we do?

20. Matt Rowson - 10/04/2008

Tim – you’re forgetting the Demerit up front experiment against Crewe two years ago. What about Demerit and Shittu up front with Kabba and Collins John in central defence?

Simmo – would dispute negative point 3. One of the biggest concerns about the potential for promotion is that I can’t see any prem players in our squad, not current prem players anyway. Two years ago we had three, albeit one wasn’t strictly ours. I can’t see queues forming for Dan and Jay.

East Stand man – I was going to contest the assertion that Aidy “saved us from relegation”, however reasonable the general point. I don’t accept that we were going down before he arrived, we’d only just blown a decent shout at the play offs by stuffing up a load of winnable home games and it was a truly rubbish division.

However, then I saw your line up and realised you must be taking the piss…

21. Nick B - 10/04/2008

Apart from the Hull debacle, I didn’t think the Jay at RB thing worked badly at all. The back line looked solid over several matches. Bringing back Old Toblerone Feet is an astonishing, and plainly wrong, decision. If Aidy wanted a change, Mariappa was surely the answer.
Either of these options, with JE plus one of O’Toole or Williamson in midfield (as poor as each other at the moment) should give us sufficient defensive strength. Which leaves the eternal conundrum of the offensive part. Playing a central midfield 3 (NOT including Bangura, please) with Smith and McAnuff instructed to push on to support Henderson (who needs a big change of attitude and a lot more anticipation) might be the best bet. If we persist with 4-4-2 with the strikers we have, I can see West Brom killing us. I can even see Scunthorpe killing us…
Having said all this, I would put our chance of automatic at about 2% and our chance of play off success at some way below 10.

22. East Stand Man - 10/04/2008

Matt,

Your last comment made me laugh out loud for the first time today (in a nice way). Now if you want me to propose a line out that would really take the piss!

Come to think of it any permutation on the current bunch would warrant your comment.

23. Simon - 10/04/2008

Matt, I can appreciate there’s a bit of debate about whether or not we’d have gone down had Lewington stayed on and, of course, we will never know the answer (my own thought was that we were pretty doomed having picked up 2 points from 6 games up until his dismissal with obvious discord in the camp following the departure of Terry Burton and the problems with Neal Ardley).

I think to argue that we “blew a decent shout at the play-offs” may be over egging it rather unless I remember that season rather differently.

I seem to remember our play-off push lasting for about 15 games before we plummeted to just below mid-table and never rose above that.

By the way, last night was absolutely abject, just to be boring and agree with everyone else. I didn’t clap the Barnsley players off though because I didn’t actually think they had to be very good. We lost it without them having to do much to win it (they came for a draw and hit a side that was bad enough to allow them to score three times).

24. Esp - 10/04/2008

rookerythoughts wrote:
“it would be good to get the thoughts of some of Watford’s most articulate fans”….well that leaves me out then.

Have you thought of inviting Aidy to contribute Mr Rookery? I don’t think Watford would (willingly) hold a Fans Forum before the end of the season do you?. There seem to be more critics outside of Vic Road than from within, unless he gets the dreaded vote of confidence of course

Much as it pains me to say it I also think the WST are to “weak” to insist on one and by weak I only mean in the sense that they hold no real power or voice on the board, that’s all.

A Q & A would be interesting though (maybe at the Sponsor’s Night) providing it is not full of Aidy’s psychobabble, soundbites and hyperbole which is best served cold and to the press who swallow such things with relish

25. Esp - 10/04/2008

East Stand Man

I can’t find fault with your side Smith of course has to play even if 90% fit but I think Jordan was one of the few who played reasonably well yesterday and you haven’t even put him on the bench; he should play in defence or midfield (and be told to overlap wherever possible in either position, something he did fail to do last night) in place of Mariappa or Rinaldi in your line up

I could also think of 2 or 3 I would rather have on the bench than Bangura right now, I know our midfield is crap at the moment but even Kabba on the bench in addition to your choice would signal to the crowd that we are out to win the West Brom tie

Correct about dropping JJ – I was amazed he stayed on for 90 minutes his head certainly ain’t right and he maybe suffering some burn out (certainly lacking in confidence)

26. Mark - 11/04/2008

Will Mariappa be any better than Doyley at right back and Bromby does not want to play there?

Somebody needs to replace McAnuff…there was a reason why he got dropped so quickly after signing when Johnson came in.

You knew is was going to be a bad night when it was announced that Smith wasn’t in the side.

Eustace in for O’Toole who needs a rest…I think Williamson has been one of the few positives in recent games.

As for the strikers…well they’re all injured anyway!

27. Matt Rowson - 11/04/2008

Simon

having rechecked the situation, yes perhaps a “decent shout” was overegging it. However if I’m lucky then this:

http://www.watfordfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/LeagueTable/0,,10400~20050226,00.html

should link to a league table at the end of Feb. We’re mid table, as far from the play-offs as from relegation going into a March where we had four home games, three against struggling sides, and a trip to mid-table QPR. It was a shout, and we hadn’t been playing all that badly since the turn of the year (non-show in the Fulham replay excepted). It was March that did for Lewington.

28. Snorebens - 11/04/2008

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/rob_williams/2008/04/going_up_would_make_me_down.html

Fair comments on the link as above but I don’t want us to go up as we’re cack.
Oh and good to see Aidy contradict himself; after telling the BBC we wouldn’t have scored on Wednesday ‘if we’d played for a week’, he’s now telling the Watford website ‘arguably, we could have easily scored two or three on Wednesday’ ?!?!

Lost the plot undoubtedly; the question for me now is did he actually ever have the plot in the first place?

29. GraemeB - 11/04/2008

Don’t worry all. The way this division has gone this year we will beat WBA 2-0 playing champagne football.
Seriously though my money’s on Hull (the form team) and Baggies to go up automatically, with us scraping into the playoffs but losing to whoever we play (please don’t let it be Palace).
Matt, your thunk 4 is spot on. But remember that leadership comes from the manager too and right now Aidy isn’t doing it. You only have to look at his body language in the dugout to see that all is not right. I like Aidy, but just as there’s only one way he can get the team to play (hoof and hope), we are now perhaps beginning to see his limitations in man management. Is he capable of building some confidence? That’s what is sorely needed, but somehow I just don’t think it’s going to happen.

30. Esp - 11/04/2008

“….it was March that did for Lewington”
Let’s hope history doesn’t repeat itself Eh?

31. JohnF - 11/04/2008

Went away for two days hols from Thursday early. Worked, I relaxed and forgot about it. This was truly awful but why? Bromby, who has been one of our steadiest players had an absolute disaster and Matt Sadler necer seemed to get going. The midfield struggled again but this seems partly because there insufficient movement off the ball to make options available. I thought Jobi Macanuff really struggled and I have concerns about his consistency, and the fact that a right footed player doesn’t seem to ba able to play on the right. However, it does explain why he and Smitty so rarely swap over. Henderson did not look comfortable from the off and our general ball control was not what it should be. The problem almost looks as though we have a defence (OK leave out Wednesday), a midfield and forwards but they are disconnected. I can’t say exactly why it went so wrong but the fact that the forwards are having so much difficulty scoring seems to make all heads drop as soon as a couple of chances are missed. On Wednesday you felt that persistence would have paid off but the initial errors at the back certainly made the others edgy, with the result that the midfield dropped deep. Does anybody know why Collins John was not even on the bench? If he doesn’t play then that is a very expensive mistake. JJ on the bench for Saturday.

32. Dave Hart - 11/04/2008

IMO I think the decline started quite a bit earlier than that. For me, the problems started once Cardiff tried to sign Ardley in January. Clearly, he wanted to go (I understand they offered to treble his wages), and our form started to drop after that. Didn’t he hold the most assists in the division at that point? You could see at that point that he didn’t ant to play for the club anymore. Boothroyd saw this and got rid of him sharpish.

I think the injuries to Gayle, Dyche and Devlin also played a major part in Lewington’s downfall, and none of them came back to the same standard they were before being injured.

I think that Boothroyd is going to have to make major changes to both his playing style and personnel One of things about the promotion season was that he got bums on seats. The current style of play is alienating the press, and will soon start to drive fans away, if it hasn’t already.

I’m not calling for his head yet, as I do believe that he has the ability, but he has got to get rid of some of the prima dona players, as they are having an effect on others. The signing of Francis and Ellington in particular were disastrous, and giving King that enormous contract was plain crazy.

He also needs an experienced assistant manager fast, although I suspect he will go after Bassett.

33. Hornetboy84 - 12/04/2008

Barnsley ! Bloody Hell.

Due to the date change I missed it. My Dad suffered instead – as did 10 Euro friends in Geneva when I slammed my phone on the table (after a WAP update) over dinner and sulked for the rest of the night.

WBA is not the best place to go lacking in confidence and needing to get something going fast at least to give us a shot at play-off success.

But for God’s sake – no matter how bad this is – and it is – we need to stick by the team and also Aidy. Even if we have to ahve another Championship year with a restricted budget then at least we have a manager who can give us consistency.

He has to get back to playing more expansively (like we did last time) and maybe a restricted budget will see him get back to basics.

I want us to go up – to get the money – to build the “good stand” not the 2nd rate one GS is now threatening… because I believe in the long term that is the best for WFC … even as a Norwich/Wolves/Charlton type Yo-Yo club.

We have to stand up as fans here! We will very likely get thrashed (again) by WBA … have a tough looking Palace to follow and will probably now limp into play-offs (so much me saying we pip WBA by a point) … but we can do it.

C’mon WFC – restore some faith – lets do the Baggies!

34. Pete B - 12/04/2008

Ah. Terry Burton. Fond memories.That’s what we need. Someone who can support Boothroyd’s management with some decent footballing coaching. I can’t believe the line up of ex-England coaches we’ve had and the dross that we have been served up.

Honourable mention for Williamson on Wednesday. With JJOT having a mare I thought LW did pretty well. Line up today? Well I hope Smith and Eustace come back. Priskin and Henderson for me. Stewart did do well (I’m one of the few who rate him) but I wouldn’t put him ahead of McAnuff or Sadler (despite the latter’s inability to pass a ball – at least Stewart appears to know what he’s trying to do when he passes).

35. Dave Jackson - 12/04/2008

Just seen the WBA game on tv. Much better showing, more careful passing and sometimes to feet. Eustace looked a bit rusty but will hopefully be 100% against Colin’s boys. JJOT looked a lot better but I thought Macanuff was disapointing, although he didn’t get many chances to run at the full back. Still wondering if Doris could trap a bag of cement at the moment.


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